Podcast: Anja Dimitrijević

A conversation with Belgrade-based filmmaker, performer, and video-artist Anja Dimitrijević recorded via Skype (Sydney to Belgrade) on 17th May 2020 during the Covid19 lock downs.

We speak about the online education, performances, connections, and new art languages that are emerging as a consequence of physical distancing.

We enquired about the state of our bodies in increasingly digitised world and what are some of the ways to keep our bodies and our senses alive and active while engaged with the screen.

We also spoke about Anja’s recent dance video 'Blokovi', made during the social isolation and featuring the building and the neighbourhood in which she grew up and where she currently lives.

Towards the very end of the podcast, I ask Anja to describe the Covid19 experience in three words. I was also curious to know what are her hopes for the future and where would she like to see the humanity go.

TRANSCRIPT

Ira Ferris: Is Belgrade still in isolation?

Anja Dimitrijevic: We are starting to open up now. People are actually outside without the masks, so I am a bit worried about the next weeks. There are people who are still worried and wear masks and gloves in the closed spaces, but in the parks people are pretty relaxed. How is it in Australia?

Ira Ferris: It is pretty much the same. We managed to go into the lock down before it got too bad. We are now releasing the measures and people are outside, so there is a little bit of fear that it might come back. It feels like the world has gone upside down in many ways.

Anja Dimitrijevic: Yeah, absolutely.

Ira Ferris: And how has it been feeling for you, this isolation and everything?

Anja Dimitrijevic: Well, at the very start, it was really strange. Because when it all started, I just came back from Russia. I've been to Moscow to visit my friend and I was going to go from their to Venice. But at that moment everything changed. So I needed to come back to Belgrade. And the government announced the decision to have self-isolation last 28 and not 14 days. So, I need to remain home for four weeks. After two weeks, it became really hard because I've been in the apartment where I couldn't go outside at all, just on the balcony. It became a little bit hard to stay like that for the whole time. And then, the first day I went outside after four weeks of self-isolation it was really strange to see the real world, you know, because I was watching the screen too much. I also felt bad, because I wanted to use the time in a good way but the online world became somehow addictive. I also noticed that when I went out again, I saw the colours in a different way and it was strange.

Ira Ferris: What did you have in mind when you said 'it was addictive'? Did you mean staring at the screen?

Anja Dimitrijevic: Yeah. Yeah. I read the text you have published recently and I totally agree with the problems you have raised. You know, we want to be connected and there are so many new possibilities and new stuff that is happening in this time during the virus. There are so many films that are now put online, specifically for this occasion. So many conferences, so many things that are going to be online for a couple of weeks or a couple of months only. And now is the time to watch them all; and that became addictive. I realized that my days are just passing by and it's not good to stare at the screen for so many hours.

Ira Ferris: And has your body been feeling it? How are you feeling physically as a result of all that?

Anja Dimitrijevic: Well, that's an interesting question. With the work I was doing at the Venice Biennale (i.e. a pavilion invigilator), I kind of got used to being fixed in one place. So it wasn't something that I felt as strenuous during this period. Also now that I am in my space, I find it interesting that although I am in one place, I'm not always still. Sometimes I am doing yoga while listening to a lecture or a conference; doing other things while the computer is on. And that is something that I prefer, in a way. Because in the past, when I would go to the lectures at my university, I would have to be still. Now I'm more free in that way. That is a positive thing that happened in this period.

“I find it interesting that although I am in one place, I'm not always still. Sometimes I am doing yoga while listening a lecture or a conference; doing other things while the computer is on. And that is something that I prefer, in a way. Because in the past, when I would go to a lecture, I would have to be still. Now I'm more free in that way.”

Ira Ferris: Do you mean that during the class you are moving around?

Anja Dimitrijevic: Yeah, sometimes.

Ira Ferris: So do you keep your camera off so the teacher doesn't see you?

Anja Dimitrijevic: Yeah, usually we have them off. And that's a relief. It's usually something like forty of us that are listening to the lesson, and also the spring time is a season of frequent storms in Venice, so the connection is often bad. So we have the cameras off. But, I'm also very active. I'm still listening. When I want to say something I come to the computer and ask my question or share a thought. It's interesting to not be seen, you know. And to be able to move around.

Ira Ferris: Do you find it easy to concentrate on the content?

Anja Dimitrijevic: Well, all this also depends on the nature or the topic of the lecture. I am currently following two units at the university: cinema and choreography. So, if they are showing videos then I have to look at the screen and concentrate. I mean, I have to watch the movies. But, you know, our lessons are usually two to four hours long and it's a really long period to stay focused. So I kind of make my own schedule. As I really cannot physically stay still in front of the computer for four hours, I sometimes decide not to listen to some parts or not to be as focused for the whole period. Because, when I think about the IRL lessons, they are also four hours long but there are many, many pauses, while on the screen we do not have any breaks. So, we have the four hour lecture or a seminar that feels like never ending. At the very start, that was very hard to follow.

Ira Ferris: It's interesting how you've said that when you went out for the first time after four weeks of isolation, you saw the colours differently. How would you describe that in a bit more detail? And how would you explain that to yourself?

Anja Dimitrijevic: I remember going outside, seeing the grass and noticing this really radiant colour green. That is actually a very normal colour for the spring period in Belgrade but I have been away for eight years, living in Venice and in Venice there is much less nature. So, this enhanced perception was not only connected to self isolation and the screen, but also to eight years of living in a place where you see only the buildings and the sea. So I was really amazed by this radiant green. And I found myself wondering, how long was I without it?

Ira Ferris: Are you planning to go back to Venice? What is the situation like at the moment in Europe and especially when it comes to going to Italy?

Anja Dimitrijevic: That's a tricky question. Everybody is asking me that but I have no idea. I mean, I would really like to go back. It was not a proper goodbye, I haven't decided to leave. So somehow I feel that there are things that are unfinished. But on the other hand, there are so many things that happened in Venice. And the university won’t be physically present for the rest of the year, because Italy is in a really bad situation at the moment. And then also, I do not have a place to stay anymore. I mean, I have all my things still in Italy but I don't have a house anymore. And then there is a problem of the job, because they are having a big economic crisis. So everything is uncertain. Two days ago, there was also an exposition of a big chemical industry just outside of Venice, in Marghera. As those chemical substance are very toxic, people couldn't go outside or open their windows. So it seems that at this moment, Venice is having a very, very hard time. It started back in November with the high tides and then with this virus and then with this toxic fire. It's really strange.

Ira Ferris: And you are now staying in your family apartment, with your parents and your brother?

Anja Dimitrijevic: Yes, exactly. And I'm actually really happy to stay with my family in this time. I think I would be so worried if I wasn't here in this uncertain moment.

Ira Ferris: Yeah, that's understandable. I have one question that is a bit of a conceptual question, and it comes from an artwork by Croatian artist Petra Mrsa. A couple of months ago, she had an exhibition called 'What about the body?' where she looked at the state of our bodies in the technologised world. She had this exhibition months before the Covid started but was already reflecting on the state of our bodies; how much time we spend with technology and what is happening with the body as the result. As part of this exhibition, she developed a questionnaire and I would like to ask you one of the questions from it. I would like to ask you to describe a movement of your body in one physical activity you have done today?

Anja Dimitrijevic: That's an interesting question. I am actually currently taking part in a project by a Japanese-Italian artist Masako Matsushita, called Diary of a Move where she also teases these questions and encourages the participants to think about the state of the body in the Corona-period. So I have many examples of the movements I'm trying to develop, Mostly, I am trying to develop movements in the relationship with my room as I'm interested, as you know, in the concept of the space and how the space can modify, or how the perception of the space can modify through the body. I'm trying to find many different perspectives and possibilities in this small space that I'm living in, and I'm trying to experience it in as many different ways as I can imagine. At the moment, I am particularly interested in working with the floor.

Ira Ferris: What inspires you to connect to the ground?

Anja Dimitrijevic: I just feel comfortable there. And then I also remember that the floor was something that I have used a lot in my childhood, so I'm feeling free to use it again.

Ira Ferris: You mentioned that you have watched a lot of things online. Have you watched any live performances, live streamings?

Anja Dimitrijevic: Actually, I haven't watched any live performances but I have watched a lot of documented performances that I always wanted to see and that are now put online. And also, I watched a lot of conferences that are speaking about the state of the theatre in this moment and the difficulties that it is approaching. We have these conversations at the university as well and are considering the ways and the ideas of how to protect ourselves as artists in this period. We are imagining different approaches to the theatre that is not in the physical presence of people but delivered through different mediums while offering the similar experience. One of the examples that comes to my mind is having scores that people could follow while watching a theatre play. This is something that I find interesting because it is interdisciplinary and totally different from the classical way of thinking theatre, while it also gets the audience involved in the process.

Ira Ferris: So it's like a participatory theatre but online ?

Anja Dimitrijevic: Exactly. And how about you? Have you watched something ‘live’ or participated in a participatory online performance?

Ira Ferris: I did. I tried a dance class with a girl from Belgrade with whom I've danced when I lived in Belgrade for a while. I loved going to her classes in Belgrade so I was quite excited that I can now do a class with her online. But I did it once and I didn't enjoy it. I just disliked staring at the screen while dancing. It wasn't very pleasant; the radiating screen next to me while I'm trying to be in my body. I felt like my consciousness was split between two different things that I was trying to achieve. Like you, I'm also studying at the moment so I'm spending quite a lot of time close to the screen as it is. So, I'm trying to step away from the screen when not studying. So, I'm finding it really hard to have energy to be next to the screen whenever I don't have to. So although I would like to see the performances and participate in things, I'm just dreading any additional second that I have to spend staring at the screen. Whenever I have a break from that, I rather go for a walk or read a book or sit in the garden. Yeah, I find this amount of time spent staring at this thing really hard. But on the other hand, because of this Covid situation, I also had an opportunity to take part in a workshop in Croatia, which was a Zoom workshop in poetry and movement. And that was quite inspiring. I ended up writing a poem and creating a video. So, some good things came out of it all; some new and lateral ways of thinking.

Anja Dimitrijevic: And have you had this kind of online experiences before, in terms of following some online movement-based tutorials or something like that? And have you participated in any online participatory projects before this period?

Ira Ferris: I don't think so. Have you? Has it been available before? I don't even feel like it was possible?

Anja Dimitrijevic: I would say that it wasn't so frequent in terms of participatory conferences and theatre, but in 2016 I started following an online yoga tutorials. And I remember that at the very start, I couldn't really follow the yoga online but step by step I got comfortable with it and it became a really nice thing to do, and in this period of the lock downs doing these classes helped me a lot.

Ira Ferris: So you are suggesting that it takes a bit of time to get used to this, but eventually we will become comfortable with the online offerings and they will become natural. And, I guess that's gonna be happening. In other words, we will slowly get used to the things that are a bit strange and jarring at the moment, and they will become the new normal. Online theatres and all sorts of online things will just become the way we experience things.  And I guess we will also... And you are already talking about that; that you are already studying the different ways of creating content in performing arts. So, I feel that the new generations will think differently about how to create things, what kind of contents to create.

Anja Dimitrijevic: Exactly, we have lots of discussions about this at the university. Very famous artist and theatre makers are saying that theatre is not possible online, but somehow I would like to think that's not true because it shouldn't be the only possible way. We shouldn't risk to find ourselves in this situation again and have the cultural field uncovered. I think it is really important to find creative ways to keep doing our work, even if in a different way.

“Famous theatre makers are saying that theatre is not possible online, but somehow I would like to think that's not true because it shouldn't be the only possible way. We shouldn't risk to find ourselves in this situation again and have the cultural field uncovered. I think it is important to find creative ways to keep doing our work, even if in a different way.”

Ira Ferris: How will we be selling tickets for the online performances?

Anja Dimitrijevic: At the moment, there are this online 'rent a film' platforms and also online festivals that you pay for. It is, of course, a bit strange to buy a ticket for an online festival but if it is cheap, like under 10 Euros, people will participate, I think. With my collective Confluenze, I participated in a festival in Canada in March (FIFA International Festival of Films on Art, Montreal) where our film '‘Intertidal. Barene’ was selected. Initially, we were intending to go to Canada but at the very end everything changed and the festival happened only online. So the festival gave us the password to watch their whole program. Other people, whose films were not showing were buying the tickets. It was something like $30 for the whole festival and there were around 200 films screening. There are also some other, even cheaper platforms that give you the opportunity to watch the film more than once.

Ira Ferris: And what about the experience of watching on your own, as opposed to going to a venue and sharing that experience with others and having a discussion afterwards?

Anja Dimitrijevic: Well, this is something that has changed a lot as well. I actually prefer to watch things alone, because that way I concentrate better and I can watch as many times as I want. But yes, on the other hand, I did also feel lonely. Of course, it's totally different when you watch a movie with a friend and then afterwards you have a discussion about it. And I find it less possible to have these opportunities right now. People just do not want to stay online for longer than they need to.

Ira Ferris: For the last few years, you have been making dance films or dance video art. So you have already been working with a live performing medium (i.e. dance) and turning it into a video content. And I guess we'll be seeing more and more of that being created, if the spaces for physical or IRL dance performances become difficult to access. Is that what you are predicting, that we will see more of that?

Anja Dimitrijevic: Yeah, somehow I think that my interest in creating dance videos was... Well, I wouldn't say I was predicting anything but somehow I felt that our society is going online more and more. I mean, I'm also wanting to protect the IRL theatre, as it is very important but I am just thinking that it is necessary to also learn how to work with this technical stuff and develop a new language. For me, this is just a new language, not the only possible form. Also, I am not proposing that we just document the IRL performances and put them online. When you document theatre or dance performances, I think it is necessary to think of them as film objects. We need to use the cinematic language. We need to think about editing, for example.

Ira Ferris: Yeah, absolutely. The projects that you make often come across as potential video installation. And when I say that, I mean that they benefit from being shown in a gallery context as big projections, across the whole wall or presented in some idiosyncratic, unusual way. But if there are no IRL galleries in the future, then those modes of presentation are potentially lost and we are left with small home screens. Do you have any thoughts around that?

Anja Dimitrijevic: Absolutely. This is another very important element, i.e. the presentation, that I alway think of while trying to conceive a piece. At this moment I do not have the answer but I would like to open it up for the new future and the new ways of approaching film, theatre and dance.

Ira Ferris: I'd like to talk to you a bit about the most recent film you’ve made which is called 'Blokovi' in Serbian language, or ‘Blocks’ in english…

Anja Dimitrijevic: The video came together as part of our development of project Spajalica 2021. In the meantime, during that process of ours, I found an international dance-video call out looking for the videos made in home installation, so it was a perfect fit. When putting the video together, I wanted to use only the enclosed spaces of my own building and to also make it somehow dynamic.

Ira Ferris: And sound came after the videos were filmed?

Anja Dimitrijevic: Actually, the soundtrack was made earlier, as part of my university course. Then, while I was editing, I remember that soundtrack and it somehow worked. So then I worked on editing with the music and I opened this dialogue between the image and the sound.

Ira Ferris: Yeah, that's what I meant. I didn't express it properly, but I was inquiring whether the music was made with this particular video in mind or independently. You didn't dance or move to that music when you were filming, is that right?

Anja Dimitrijevic: That’s right, I didn't.

Ira Ferris: So, when you were moving, you were moving to the ambient sounds, to the silence of the space?

Anja Dimitrijevic: Exactly.

Ira Ferris: And what was the choreography inspired by? Do you even think of it in terms of choreography or do you think about the movements that you perform in this video in some other way?

Anja Dimitrijevic: I do think about it as a choreography, even though it is not completely articulated in the choreographic terms. I think about it in terms of choreographic sequences. And I also think about the positions of the camera. And I always have some kind of counting in my head, so something that has the beginning and the end.

Ira Ferris: And what about the shapes of the movements, were they inspired by the shapes of the space, by the architecture?

Anja Dimitrijevic: Absolutely. I'm always trying to figure out how they could be inspired by the forms of the space, by the rectangular lines in this case, and the linearity of the architecture. I'm also trying to find more organic connections between the sequences which is a bit hard if I am both a performer and a director. Because while I'm performing, I'm not seeing it in a neutral way and usually the people I'm working with don’t give me lots of feedback in these terms. In this project, I initially wanted to have a performer with whom I would work but it got really complicated to schedule, so it was easier to do it by myself.

Ira Ferris: And the building that we are seeing in the video, is the building that you live in at the moment, and the building you grew up in?

Anja Dimitrijevic: Yeah. This is the building I live in. And the ending sequence is imagined as if I was watching from my window, even though in reality those buildings are all around my building, not directly in front of my window-view. But I wanted to focus on the buildings and not only on the park that I'm actually seeing from my window.

Ira Ferris: As you mentioned, the call out was for the video made in home isolation but you also, as you said, wanted to make it a bit more dynamic. What do you have in mind when you speak about dynamism?

Anja Dimitrijevic: I thought about home isolation as more than just suspension. I wasn't so interested to focus on the personal state of emotions. I wanted to make it more joyful and more rhythmic, more dynamic in those terms.

Ira Ferris: And why did you go for the shaky camera? We see it two times in the video - at the beginning and in the end, when we exit the space and see the surrounding buildings. What was that choice about?

Anja Dimitrijevic: There's a couple of things to say about the shaky camera. Firstly, this was an imprint of my friend who was collaborating with me. It was her suggestion. I was a bit concerned at the beginning but then I found it interesting as a way of doing something different, something I haven't done so far. I also tried to make it so it does not look as an error, but a moving tool. So at the very start, while I'm going down the stairs, we see this unfocused and then focused shaky camera. It was interesting to me to see this dialogue between the shaky camera and the moment I was doing. I tried to select the parts that were interesting in those terms of the dialogue between the two movements.

Ira Ferris: Were there any visual references or influences that you had in mind when you were creating this video? Any styles that were crossing your mind or that you recognize upon reflection?

Anja Dimitrijevic: Well, my whole interest in screen dance, is very much connected to the choreographic work of Anne Teresa De Keersmaeker who I think is my first inspiration in those terms, even though my experience is not choreographic and I cannot say that I'm a choreographer. I try to put the things together and create a choreography between the space, the editing, and the movement. So, another influence is the Thierre De Mey who is a huge inspiration in those terms. All of the dynamic that he uses in editing his films. And then also, while I was in Moscow, there were lots of architectural sites that were very similar to this part of New Belgrade which was inspiring. And I found different musical worlds that also inspired me, maybe even in terms of movement. Even though I wasn't moving to them directly, they were an inspiration for the whole work.

Ira Ferris: You mean musical influences from Russia?

Anja Dimitrijevic: Not only from Russia but also from Yugoslavia in the 80s. I really like this electro pop and synthetic pop. In my mind, it is very connected to the aesthetics of the cement which is very common in New Belgrade, even though it is actually not the only material that is seen in this area. There is actually lots of nature in New Belgrade, much more than in the centre of the city.

Ira Ferris: So when you danced in the video, were you playing this music in your head? Was it echoing in the background?

Anja Dimitrijevic: I started rehearsing with this music, but it was just a way to get inspired. I wasn't really dancing to it during the real filming.

Ira Ferris: And when you dance for the project 'Diary of a Move' which you have mentioned earlier, do you dance to music or without it?

Anja Dimitrijevic: I used to use music much more in the past, but less so these days. In my daily life these days, I do not listen to the music constantly. I have some weeks when I like to listen to music and some when I just like the silence. So in my Diary of a Move, during this whole month, it was a similar thing. It just came naturally, at one point, to remove the music and move while hearing the sounds of the place and my natural state of thoughts and emotions. It became much more intimate. How about you? Do you prefer to have music or dance in silence?

Ira Ferris: Well, lately I don't really have a need for music, for some reason. And I'm actually writing a piece on dancing in silence. So that's why I was interested in asking you this question, because I've been talking to a number of people about this phenomena, wondering why so many dancers prefer dancing to silence, which might come as a surprise to people who tend to associate dance to music.

Anja Dimitrijevic: Anne Teresa De Keersmaeker is interesting in this respect. She's really analyzing all the elements of the music and makes dance that in a way visualizes the music.

Ira Ferris: Do you know anyone writing about dancing to silence?

Anja Dimitrijevic: There is another dancer and choreographer whose name is Yasmine Hugonnet, I think she is from Switzerland. She's inspired with Isadora Duncan's trance state. She's working a lot in silence and also in this kind of motionless state of being. It can be a bit difficult to understand at the first glance but watching it for some time, it becomes a real experience. I guess it is much stronger to watch these kinds of things in real life than on the video, but maybe I'm wrong. I'm not sure actually. I just think that these kinds of presences are stronger when we are in the same space as the dancer.

Ira Ferris: And Isadora Duncan, she danced to silence? Is that what you are referring to?

Anja Dimitrijevic: Well, Isadora Duncan was the first who introduced this motionless state of the body.

Ira Ferris: That's interesting, I'll have further research of that. But to come back to few other questions I wanted to ask you. Given that you have been making video art and dance films for a few years now, how would you compare where you are now in terms of skills, in terms of editing for example and understanding how to approach the cut? How has it changed and in what ways is it easier and quicker, if you would compare it to yourself at the very beginnings of this process? And what is there still to learn and develop?

Anja Dimitrijevic: For me, editing is a very intuitive method. And somehow it's very strange to think about editing, because ... I don't know if I told you but my father is a professor of montage at the Faculty of Dramatic Arts in Belgrade. He never actually taught me how to do it, but somehow it came to me naturally. I realised that when we watch the films together, sometimes he will have feedback and analyse how something is told through the edit. And because of that I became more aware of this aspect of filmmaking. I have never had a proper practical course in editing; all of the knowledge of editing actually emerged through conversations and analysis of editing. And, I would say that editing is somehow similar to writing. More you do it, better you become at it. I mean, you express your thoughts more easily. So, somehow I think that it is similar with editing. More you do it, you became more natural with this kind of language. In terms of further development I would like to work with after effects more, which is what I'm still not very good at. And then there is another thing that I am most interested in, at the moment and that is documentary film. I really love the documentary field. It is a very interesting film expression. It is also very difficult because it brings the question of the gaze and is much more political, in terms of who is speaking and what. So this is something that I would like to do next. And when I mentioned, at the very start, that I feel I still have some unfinished thing to do in Venice, this is what I had in mind. I would like to make a documentary-like film in that city, in this moment.

Ira Ferris: That would be really interesting if you would do that.

Anja Dimitrijevic: Thank you. I really hope to have the opportunity to go back and have this creative period there.

Ira Ferris: Another thing that has been present in your life so far is travelling. You mentioned you came back from Russia recently and you were also supposed to go to Bulgaria in July. All that is up in the air now, as well. What do you think is the future of traveling?

Anja Dimitrijevic: Yeah, I'm really worried about that. There were lots of plans but there are none anymore, at the moment. And I'm starting to be a little bit concerned about the possibility of future jobs. So now I'm also a bit worried about the financial dimension of the whole thing. But I do not want to fall into this anxiety and freeze in it.

Ira Ferris: Yeah, but it is quite natural to feel those things. The situation is pretty weird, everything is really turned upside down. I guess it's just about orienting ourselves in this new way of being and living. Last question, or one of the last questions I'd like to ask you, is around feedback to the work. So, you create a video and you send it into an online festival and it's screened online. Do you get much feedback when your work is received that way? If you were at the festival with people, maybe you would get a sense of what they thought, maybe they would approach you and talk to you. How does that work right now? And what would you like to receive in terms of dialogue around your work?

Anja Dimitrijevic: I'm very happy when I see any reaction to the work I do, because then I feel that it exists. You know, I somehow feel that when the work is done and it is published, it is not the end of it. When it resonates, it means that it is alive. So, I'm extremely happy to have these conversations with you. And it was really a surprise when you wrote to me after the exhibition in Belgrade that you have an interest to meet me and have the conversation. It was a big motivation in terms of thinking what next. Usually it would be friends who give us the feedback. Some of them were critical, and that was very useful too. And our friends are in the field of arts. But people who are curators are much more open to give us feedback; much more than artists. A great thing also happened when we had this screening on an online platform in Canada. While watching the films, we found a film of one artistic duo from Finland that was very similar to ours. So, after seeing their movie, I wrote to my friend Laura with whom I made ‘Intertidal. Barene’ asking her if she would be interested to have a Zoom conference with those two filmmakers. The festival gave me the contact of both of them and we organised a Skype conversation. That gave us an opportunity to talk about each other's films and give each other feedback, discuss creative decisions, the approach to movement, sound, the collaborative process... It was really inspiring. And it happens rarely that you have an opportunity to have such detailed conversation.

“I'm very happy when I see any reaction to the work I do, because then I feel that it exists. You know, I somehow feel that when the work is done and it is published, it is not the end of it. When it resonates, it means that it is alive.”

Ira Ferris: That's lovely that those kinds of things come out of the online festival, because these conversations are really the oxygen to keep going and doing things.

Anja Dimitrijevic: Absolutely. And I also thought a lot about how we managed to connect with them. It required a few steps. Firstly, I needed to contact the festival organisers, then they needed to get these filmmakers' approvals which is reasonable, so we needed to wait for a couple of days. But in the end it was wonderful that we had this kind of detailed conversation. It was very useful from the professional point of view to learn about their processes and share ours with them.

Ira Ferris: I'd like to finish this talk asking you: what would be the three words that come to your mind as a way to describe the situation that we are in at the moment, the corona virus situation of social distancing and isolation?

Anja Dimitrijevic: Oh, that's a very interesting question. Should it be three thoughts or three words?

Ira Ferris: I'll leave it to you to decide.

Anja Dimitrijevic: Well, then I would say... The first thought I have is: TAKING SMALL STEPS. It was something that really helped me a lot in this period; to plan ahead in terms of small steps, instead of feeling like being in a suspense. Then I would say: LISTENING. Because I really tried to listen to my body: what it seeks, what it wants, what it doesn't want. And then I would say: CREATIVITY. For me, this was a creative period, not only in terms of making things, but also in terms of thinking things and writing down all the ideas. It is good to have a little bit of a lazy period, because it gives us time to think and energy to do the work afterwards.

“Three words that come to my mind as a way to describe this Corona period, are: taking small steps, listening, and creativity.”

Ira Ferris: And what would be three hopes for the future; a direction you would like to see us go, as a humanity?

Anja Dimitrijevic: That's also a very, very interesting question. And I was thinking about it, because everybody is speaking about the new normality. So if we are going to have a new normality, I hope that it will involve having more time for ourselves. I really hope that people will try to protect their own space and time, because so far everyone was just trying to seek a workaholic way of life. I'm not sure if this is going to happen, but it is a hope. And then I also hope for purification. I hope that this will be the warning that it is us that are making the damage. I really hope that in the ecological terms people will notice how in these few months the environment recovered a little, by not having us in it. And... I'm not sure if the third thought is a real thought but I have a friend who is very much into astrology and I remember that she told me in December of 2019 that this year is going to be crazy. And I really couldn't imagine that it is going to be like this. But somehow I was already mentally prepared that it is going to be crazy. So after that, I started to look into this a little bit more and I found a very interesting thought that suggested that until now we have seen the world as a negative (in terms of photographic negative) and now we're in this transformative moment from which we will see the world in its truth. And even though this could be painful, this is my hope, because I am more interested in the truth. 

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