Conversation with Croatian multi-media artist Petra Mrša with whom I spoke over Skype, between Sydney and Rijeka, on 30th April 2020 during the Covid19 lock downs.
I was drawn to Petra’s work after coming across her multi-disciplinary propositional projects ‘Rehearsing Family’ and ‘What about the body?’, both of which are particularly relevant now that our homes are our universes and technology took over our bodies in unprecedented ways.
I was interested to talk to Petra - who holds degree in sociology, psychology and photography - about the body in the time of social distancing and online streaming. What direction might art take after Covid; and how might our relationship to nature be affected by it all?
TRANSCRIPT
Ira Ferris: [00:00:00] How would you describe your practice? What is your practice covering?
Petra Mrša: [00:00:09] Well, when I get the opportunity to do something new I take time to observe the powerful social constructions or some kind of mainstream common knowledges that I see around me, and then I try to think about the sources of these. What do we take as normal? And I say 'powerful' because these constructs are usually something that we don't question. We usually take them as a normal way of being. I think these constructs are very powerful because they determine our lives and our values, how we see each other and ourselves. So, I'm very happy that through art I can dig into the sources of all these constructs; try to find their origins and how they became so unquestionable. A lot of the things that I like to deal with are connected with production of knowledge and looking into the methods and ways to liberate knowledge, if that is possible.
Ira Ferris: [00:01:40] In doing that, you work with multimedia and in a cross-disciplinary way. You have education in photography, but you have also completed sociology and psychology. Tell me a bit about the beginning of your journey in the arts. What mediums did you start with? Why did you study sociology and psychology and photography together as a mix? What were the first artworks that you made and how did your practice develop from there on?
Petra Mrša: [00:02:16] Well, I was very interested in the power relations: who says that this is important and this is not important. Who determines how we should live our lives. So I was, of course, interested in sociology which describes and investigates how the society organizes itself. And then, psychology was close to it, trying to describe and explain an individual behavior. But then all of these disciplines started to be a bit narrow; because there is also a big hierarchy and power relation in how science produces knowledge. And I realized that thinking about the society and our being in the world should not be bound to statistics and academic writing, but should have a more open approach and use different methodologies, use all our senses and not just one small, narrow part of us which is rational thinking and writing. I was lucky, of course, with a knowledge I got studying sociology and psychology but I did not want to proceed operating in these power relations, inside of the science production of knowledge. I felt that I don't want to be in that team. And... I don't know, it's almost like an anecdote: I was walking with a friend through a beautiful small village in Istria, Croatia and he had a small digital camera and I really enjoyed how we were exploring the world through these small frame, picking some things that we found nice or meaningful. After that, I started to spend time with a small digital, compact camera. And I realized that this creates a relationship between me and the world in which I feel very nice, very excited. And that's how I started to prepare for my exam for the Academy, to study cinematography. Because in Croatia, there is no BA in photography, only an MA of photography. But BA is in cinematography. So yeah it was a bit crazy and without thinking why and what will I do with this, because I already finished the other two universities. But I just kind of followed this rebellion against the scientific approach, and my enthusiasm and passion of having this framing device in front of my eyes. And then I somehow managed, with my portfolio, to enrol in the Academy and study cinematography. And more and more I studied, I found that on the contrary from science, art gives more tools and methods to deal with the things that you want to investigate and communicate, open a public debate around. So my love towards this artistic field and artistic practice was really just growing. The first works were, of course, some tasks for the academy. But what I would mention as my early works, and these are not really even works but they connected me to the camera and to myself. These were the wanderings around with my camera, when I was able to put myself in a different mode of perception. I was not speaking with people; only observing, looking into details, observing light, observing what is happening in the moment. So, this were really my beginnings in photography and why it attracted me. Because it put me in some different state of mind and different kind of perception. But of course, after studying photography and developing my practice, the things that I now do as a photographer are much more concept based and much more directed and preconceived. But at the beginning what attracted me to it all was that I really liked the state of mind that I was in while making pictures.
Ira Ferris: [00:08:19] At that point, when you were in Istria with a friend who had a camera, was that the actual beginning of your creative experience or were you creative as a child? Were you playing with some form of art as you were growing up?
Petra Mrša: [00:08:40] Yes, I was always interested in some kind of expression and creativity: in drawings, in acting, in dancing. I really liked when you have to learn to invent something and not repeat something. So I really, really enjoyed that position throughout my life. But somehow at that moment when I had this encounter with the camera with a friend in Istria, things clicked and it was a right moment for me to take this seriously. But, I have to say, I did not take it seriously on the conscious level. At that point, I was almost on the bottom; you know when you lose the belief that things make sense. And I was just thinking, oh, this what I studied is not worth anything. But, now I realise, that this was more like when you have some problem with a relationship and you give up and maybe you don't have to give up. Now I realize that psychology and sociology is such a broad field and it has such an enormous number of really great, smart and beautiful professionals that make our life better. But yeah, at that time I just could not see myself in those disciplines. And when I encountered photography it was, I must say, like some kind of straw to take. I was not thinking, oh, this is now it; this is now something serious. I just felt that I enjoy it and maybe it will be a one year hobby, if I manage to enrol into the Academy. But somehow it happened that I was taking it more and more seriously. And, of course, there were also crises. I was not just enjoying it but also questioning the medium, not knowing if there is any purpose in producing more pictures. But what was good is that I did not come to the dead end. I realized that in the art field there is always a way to find the meaning in what you are doing, because it gives you this freedom to choose what you want to do, in a way that you think it makes sense.
Ira Ferris: [00:11:46] Your practice is very much multidisciplinary and you really pull out from variety of fields and use a variety of mediums to express whatever you feel is necessary to express, or maybe not even necessary but what you desire to express. And it is interesting that you started this artistic journey with the medium of technology, whether it was a photo camera or a film camera, because one of your most recent projects is looking at the body and the relationship between the body and technology. And I did want to ask you whether you have a background in dance and physical movement, and you have just mentioned that you danced as a child?…
Petra Mrša: [00:12:42] Yes, yeah. It is so nice when you love something and, of course, the more things the better. And I'm so happy that I had this love towards dance since I was a kid, but I was dancing only with my friends. So, we did not learn from someone, we did not have a teacher. But there was four of us and we made the choreography by ourself, to the songs we wanted, and we showed this publicly at the end of the school year. So this was how I enjoyed the dance in my early years.
Ira Ferris: [00:13:42] So you didn't go to dance schools or anything like that?
Petra Mrša: [00:13:46] I think for one year I was in a ballet school. Maybe even less than a year. But I was not attracted to it. I was not so interested in following all of those strict moves.
Ira Ferris: [00:14:23] That's interesting that you weren't interested in dance training but you loved dancing. How would you, from this perspective, explain this to yourself; this fact that you didn't really like being told how to dance, that you preferred doing it by yourself?
Petra Mrša: [00:14:45] Yes. I think I really thought dance is great, but going to a school was not the part of dancing that I fancied. I realized that I am more interested in dancing to the songs I like and in inventing my own moves. Because this is what I liked about dance; that it is a way to listen to your body and connect to yourself in a different way, through your body, and not that you achieve a certain movement because you are trained.
Ira Ferris: [00:15:28] That's interesting because it kind of connects to those power structures, and you said that you want to invent something and not repeat something.
Petra Mrša: [00:15:38] Yeah, but what I think is very important to point out is that I don't think that I am inventing something new in the world or for the society. Because there are so many smart people out there doing things. I think what is very important is to invent things in your own life, for yourself. And if you would conduct some research or comparative analysis, you would for sure find other people doing the same things that I do. So you could even say that I'm repeating things. But from the perspective of my own experience and my own life, I am inventing because I did not do it before or experience it before. So in these terms, I feel like I am in the unknown and I am discovering or inventing. And maybe I used too big of a word but, yeah this is how it currently feels for me individually; it feels like some kind of invention or discovery, and this is what I really like.
Ira Ferris: [00:16:56] Yeah, discovery is a nice way to speak about it, and maybe that's what you had in mind when you spoke about invention. Going from there, from your interest in movement and coming back to one of the latest works that you have done, called 'What about the Body?, which was shown late last year at Gallery VN in Zagreb. In that work, you looked at the body and the effect of technologies upon it. Can you tell me a bit more? What inspired this project and what exactly were you exploring or questioning through it?
Petra Mrša: [00:17:40] This was again connected to my thinking about how we can learn about the world and about ourselves. And I realized that I mostly learn things from the computer. The knowledge about what is happening or how to do something comes from the computer, from the Internet. And, of course, in many cases that is super helpful and super useful, and it makes our lives easier. But I think that, on other hand, by making it simpler and easier and approachable, technology is also problematic. Because for some knowledge, we need to also experience some pain, some questioning, our own discoveries and not taking the answers as they are written. We need to have more doubt. So a lot of these things are missed or are not developed in us if we just take the knowledge from the Internet and use it in our lives.
“I realized that I mostly learn things from the computer. The knowledge about what is happening or how to do something comes from the computer, from the Internet. In many cases that is useful and makes our lives easier. But I think that, on the other hand, by making it simpler and easier, technology is also problematic. Because for some knowledge, we need our own discoveries and not taking the answers as they are written. We need to have more doubt.”
In some of my previous works I was looking into the fact that we learn about the nature by reading books or watching movies. I did two works on this topic. One was called: "It's so calm. No one around" and it's referring to walking in the forest where it's calm but actually there's so much around and so many things are happening that we don't have a perception or a knowledge to connect with. And then the other work was called 'Exploring the environment 2' where I made photos that resemble the herbarium, the classification of the animals and plants that we see in the herbarium or in the collections of the museum of natural history. You always see the name of the animal or a plant and the Latin name. Everything tries to be very objective and there is actually a lot of information missing. Like, how this thing was made, how the colors are produced in this image, is it a verbatim picture or was the animal or a plant somehow taped so that it looks better, in some better composition? And then also, how was it taken from the environment? Was it killed? How was it killed? Was it found? So all sorts of questions that we could ask or things we could disclose. So in this work, 'Exploring environment 2', I took these images from the collection and have added some extra information and some more stylization, some shadows in order to point that this approach to nature is not at all objective and neutral but is made with our brains and our belief systems about nature and our relation to it, and is in turn influencing further constructs and belief systems, the specific world views.
Image from Petra Mrsa’s project ‘Exploring the Environment 2’
So that was just one of the few works in which I was thinking about how spending time in front of the computer shapes our life. And I must say, I don't know if anyone spends more time in front of the computer than me, maybe similar. I spent almost this whole day in front of the computer. So, I start from this position when I question this. So, I'm not like: 'I hate computers. I am anti technology. I don't use this.' No, I really do use it. I really love it. I do. Most of the work on the pictures is in post-production. So it's a lot of spending time in front of the computer. But I am also interested in questioning how this shapes our perception, our connection to the nature and our body. So in this work, 'What about the body?' I was thinking how through the computer we can be easily served in so many different ways like: having friends, learning skills, having sex, ordering food, paying bills, so everything can be done through computer, which of course is great because a lot of things are made easier and a lot of people would not have access to all these things without a computer but I was interested to maybe slow down a bit and question our relationship to the knowledge we get through the computer. And also how all of these contemporary services that can be made through the computer, made it unnecessary for our bodies to be involved in the environment: to go to the markets, see people that you maybe don't want to see and get information through these encounters.
So, I think these devices and the technology are not bad but I also think that's important to... oh well, this is such a cliche world, "balance it," so I don't even want to say it, but… I think it's important to question what this lack of physicality, of meeting friends in person, going to shops, learning about nature in situ, etc. causes. It is important to reflect on how we in a way completely stopped using this tool of the body. I imagine that our body can be such an interesting, perceptive tool for how we can hear things, see things, explore other people through our body, through our senses. And I think that this ability is decreasing through our everyday ritual of spending hours in front of the computer. So, we are not developing our body as a perceptive tool and a source of knowledge that I think the body can be.
Ira Ferris: [00:25:53] Yeah, the embodied knowledge is, I guess, the word to use there. You mentioned that you spend lots of time in front of the computer as it is and I'm assuming that's on the increase now, since we've been in this lockdown and this Corona virus situation. I did want to ask you, how are you feeling at the moment about it all? How are you feeling physically and what are your feelings about what's happening with arts at the moment, with things going online? And what are you predicting will be happening? How are you personally approaching your art practice right now?
Petra Mrša: [00:26:52] Well, in some sense, some people are really over loaded with work because everything has to become digital. For example, professors or artists who were working in different ways, now need to make digital content for the web and the computer. So in one way, people have to work more. But on the other hand, people in many other professions maybe have much less work because they cannot go to work. And the concentration that comes from lowering the speed is something that I find very valuable. So you are not in the traffic jam, you are not late to your job and then stressed about this; you are on your minimum and not on your maximum and you are more productive and more efficient. So, I believe that there is something very good happening because of this slowing down. And also, so many people are now saying let's not go back to normal because the normal was not normal. Of course, this is perhaps again my own Internet bubble, because other people are maybe not thinking about that. But I can hear a lot of voices speaking about the importance of rethinking our way of being in the world, our relationships, the solidarity that we show. People are raising the questions about how to continue, how to create better relationships amongst each other and with the environment. So, what I think was really good about this isolation is that is slowed down the process of this crazy neo liberal capitalism that just goes so fast, running into one direction which is really self-destruction.
Ira Ferris: [00:31:09] Yes, on one hand you're right, we are slowing down or are given an opportunity to slow down but I'm also noticing that in some ways things have sped up because everything is now suddenly on the Internet and I'm finding it hard to even cope with following everything that's going on. So I'm feeling that there is also a resistance to slow down; everyone is just finding new ways to continue doing the same thing. At the same time, we are talking about this desire of not returning to normal and a desire to return to nature. But I have to ask your own question: what about a body? Because we are actually at the moment in danger, I feel, of completely giving our bodies to technology because we have been... Well, I have been glued to the computer more than ever and I feel that that's going to continue. I feel that more art in the future, from now on, will be digital because people have discovered some new ways of doing things and they will like it. Some people will like it and continue doing it that way. And then I'm wondering, how do we return to nature if we give our bodies to technology and if we lose that touch with the body that you're talking about? And your previous projects were exactly about that, about how will we care about nature if we are not in the nature and with the nature, physically.
Petra Mrša: [00:32:59] Yes, that's a super question because I think that the way we learn about nature involves lots of information and classification, but we don't really get the connection with it and without the emotional relation, we can hardly appreciate flowers and plants and anything that is not made by our hands. The only way to connect with it, is to be there, to be a part of it. And I think that being closer to it, understanding it and having a connection with it, can really make us much stronger and also emancipated. If you are more critical to theories and connect with nature with your own body, you become more emancipated and more brave. But of course, we all want to be accepted and part of society and have friends and have thousand likes. It's crazy how we want this. But actually, we could also get all of this likes and be connected if we would be brave and true to ourselves, to what we want to be, and not by copying this desirable picture of being beautiful, because this is like a recipe. Aha, if you have these muscles and you have this kind of hair and these kind of boobs, you will get the likes. But this is mostly propaganda. But I actually think that there are many, many people that believe in other, different things and this just has to be made more visible. And then it will get more attention and more power. But power in a good way. Not in the mucho, egoistic way. But more in some collaborative and solidarity way.
Ira Ferris: [00:36:57] That's another thing that you're exploring in this project, 'What about the body?' This idea of how much our bodies belong to us and to what degree they're systemized or part of the system. And there was a really interesting questionnaire that you have developed for this project. Because lots of your projects involve interaction with the audience, which actually is not an audience anymore in that case but becomes a participant and you engage in a dialogue with them. And in this particular questionnaire there was a question that I really loved. And I will ask you that question now, and I'm particularly interested in it at the moment because I know that we are spending lots of time static and in front of our computers and not moving even as little as we usually move. So the question is: describe movements of your body in one physical activity you did today.
Petra Mrša: [00:37:54] Okay. I went today to the balcony with my two legs straight. There was a sun there. And... I put my feet on the ground, but I also put my hands on the ground, so I made a triangle with my body. And I moved my head towards left and there I saw houses and the blue sea, and twelve birds that were making circles in the sky. And then I moved my neck back in the position of watching towards the floor. And it came to my mind how happy I am that I made this triangle with my body on the balcony, because there something unexpected can happen: birds can just come and make a surprise for you, or you can see a ship in the sea. So I then strengthened my body with my hands next to my hips. And spent few minutes just taking time; the sun licking my face very strongly.
Ira Ferris: [00:40:23] That's so detailed. And it surprised me. I really didn't think you'd be going in such a detail when you decided to include this question in your questionnaire. What were you hoping to achieve and what were the reactions of the audience, of participants that were asked those questions? Did you hear the answers or how did that work? And did you get any feedback of how did it feel for them to describe the movement of the body? And how did it feel for you doing this now?
Petra Mrša: [00:41:03] Yes, it is... It is such a nice question. Thank you. Because lot of things that I do in my work, collaboratively, are the things that are made before the work is shown or installed. But in this work we wanted to continue this dialogue about the body with the public. I did this project together with four other artists: Jasna Jasna Zmak, Nina Kurtela, Mejra Mujcic, and Masa Milovac. And we all agreed that for this topic, the right format would be to include the bodily presence in the gallery. So we had this questionnaire and also our answers, but they were all mixed, so on each paper you could get answers of all five of us. And then each of us would invite the audience to read these questions and answers with us and also to answer the questions themselves. And then, usually, some discussion emerged from these questions and answers. And it was really great, because the gallery and the questioner gives you some constructed situation, but what you then ask from people and from yourself is to behave in a relaxed way. So what you get from yourself as an artist, or as the one that initiates the experience, and from the public is a very interesting interaction. It's kind of performing, but also being yourself. And you are providing an experience that the audience would not gain by watching a video or reading something. It is more active. So in a way, the audience makes their own knowledge, with their own bodies being involved in these questions.
Petra Mrsa at ‘What about the body?’
For me, it was very interesting to find myself in a situation like this, because usually the relationship is: 'aha, this is the artist' and then they maybe ask you something about the work and then you drink wine and speak about something else. But here, the interaction was completely different because of the exploration and the production of knowledge; interest in the knowledge did not stop before the exhibition and at the time of installing the work, but continued. For me, it was very interesting that people were really sharing their ideas about how they see their body and how they use their body. So it was really nice to put out onto the surface all of these things which are otherwise private. But on the other hand, this is also, I think, very political because your private is also political. So what can we do with our body? What can we share that we do with our body; why we do it or we don't do it? I think all of these things are very much influenced by what society asks of us or what the system asks of us. So I think it was very good to speak about it, to take time and space for sharing this knowledge. And, it is so funny you chose this question because it is so kind of basic but actually, it is so nice. If you really think about, you know, how your finger comes to the mouth and what does this finger then do, or when the whole hand takes the glass of water and how this functions, or how many steps do you make to go to toilet. All of these things can make us more aware of our body.
I think the reason why we have neglected our bodies is because we have focused on how the body looks - is it beautiful or not? And if it's not, then you better don't think about the body and try to be more invisible. And that's why a computer and the internet really helps, because you don't need to feel miserable if you're not the most beautiful body. This digital space is more fair because people are more equal and they don't expose their physicality. But if we would not measure our bodies against those standards, we would get much more enjoyment from our physicality.
Ira Ferris: [00:47:03] It's interesting because on the other hand we have lots of images of beautiful bodies on the screen and the online is sometimes the place where we are being saturated by this idea of some kind of physical perfection. So we can't even hide there. But it does give us some room for hiding; you're right. And it's interesting that you say that people were so inspired to share these things about their bodies, because it speaks to me about this need and the desire to get in touch with the body and speak about the body and share what the body is feeling.
To move a bit forward, you mentioned few times the word 'collaboration' and your works are very often collaborative. What is it about collaboration that draws you to this working methodology? And what makes a good collaboration or what is a good collaborative experience in your view?
Petra Mrša: [00:48:29] Well, usually the artist profession is quite lonely. It's very much this image of one genius that does everything by her or himself. And for me, that position is just not meaningful and also not exciting. And also, if I am interested in exploring how we can live in the world, in a society, then it's a bit hard to explore this by myself. When I was exploring how we learn about nature, I was able to do this alone because here I really wanted to explore the individual body in the nature. But if I want to learn how we can speak with younger generations about video games, or how I can speak with my female peers about the body, or how we experience the family roles, it is hard to do this without inviting other people and considering different ways of thinking, or different behavioral actions. So once I have some questions and the idea, I want to explore it with people that are part of this topic.
But the problem is that the system always puts my name on projects, even though I always highlight who are the collaborators. And okay, I am the initiator and the person that signs all of these initiatives, but nothing would happen without these collaborators. I would have no practice if there would be no collaborators, because they are not just executers, they are also the source of knowledge. They are also the source of the stance that I then want to share, or the questions I want to share once the exploration is over amongst me and these people. So this experience and this collaboration is really the source of the work. And also, it often offers the format. Sometimes I know what will be the format beforehand. For example, with the project 'Rehearsing Family' that I did with my family, I knew that there will be pictures because I wanted to make some kind of alternative family pictures. But a format for the work with the boys playing video games came from me speaking with them and from the content that we came to together. From that came the video and some texts. And the games they were playing was something that they put inside of the work. So, yeah, the collaborators are an extremely important part of any work.
“… nothing would happen without these collaborators. I would have no practice if there would be no collaborators, because they are not just executers, they are also the source of knowledge.”
(Image from Petra’s work ‘The Session’)
Ira Ferris: [00:52:17] I also feel that in any art practice, the initial ideas are very fragile and sometimes they need a bit of time to cultivate before they can be shared with others, because sharing them too soon, before they are a bit stronger, risks being swayed in a direction one does not necessarily want to go. So it can confuse. Do you relate to this? Do you wait a bit before you express or suggest or share an idea with others?
Petra Mrša: [00:53:04] Well, a lot of times I do really spend a lot of time on my own in front of the computer before I share some idea. But also, I have now been working as artist for some ten years, and the things that I'm interested in are not changing much. Interest in emancipation and investigation outside of the established knowledge is something that is constantly present. Then the place where I am invited to exhibit, the working conditions, to some degree define the format the investigation will take, or even which of the topics I will focus on. Then I start making these ideas visible and exploring them through collaboration.
Ira Ferris: [00:54:57] And do you have a methodology in the way that you organize your thoughts as you start developing a project? Like maybe you buy a new notepad for each project or you use mind mapping or anything like that?
Petra Mrša: [00:55:13] That's a very nice question and I would be really happy to hear other people answering it, but I really have no method. Most of the time I don't know what will happen and there is some kind of chance involved in it. Something that I don't completely control. And then I also try to learn a lot about the topic, read, ask professionals, ask some people that are more practiced in this. So I try to make a really broad research. And this is why I also make collaborative things. Because I want to learn through people, with people, and not just from the Internet and YouTube. And also, I usually do projects that are for some specific aims, for a gallery or a specific exhibition. So I always have a specific timeframe that I need to think about.
Ira Ferris: [00:56:58] So the structures inform the direction that you will take; the idea comes out of the environment that you find yourself in. Which brings me to the project you initiated as a response to this environment of Corona and its restriction on movement and physical connection. One of the projects that, as far as I understand, came to your mind out of this particular situation is to do with sound. You have initiated something like a chain email, only you are using the audio and the sound, and you are asking participants to respond to a sound preposition with their voices. Could you tell us a bit more about this? How did you come to this idea and what are you hoping to receive?
Petra Mrša: [00:58:26] Well, being in this visual field of watching things on the computer so often and so much, I started wondering how do people that are in the sound field spend their time at home. Do they also just spend time in front of the computer or is their way or spending time at home somehow different? And also I was thinking how we usually don't hear the voices of people who record the sounds; they are more like the technicians behind the machine who make other people or objects or animals or environments audible. So I wanted us to hear the voices of these people and I invited them to record their voices in a way that is not articulated, trained, or aestheticized. It can be strange and unplanned, unexpected. I wanted to unite all of these voices through their vulnerability and through their, let's say, trust that the other person who gets their sound will make something new out of it. So one records it and then sends it to the next person who reacts from the same uncultivated and un-aesheticised perspective. And yeah, I think it's not very easy to participate because you have to record yourself in a way that cannot be evaluated as good or bad; beautiful or not. And also, you don't know what the end result will be because the next person may cut some part, add something else, and so one. But this is precisely what I was drawn to. I was drawn to this exploration that is not controlled and is based on trust and letting go, being ok with the fact that in this 'voice rally' or audio letter the next person will add something new and do something different, change it. And I also wanted to do this project with people that usually record sound because they can now do what they usually do but from their home, and they can record the sound really well so it becomes a kind of body presence. So I wanted for the sound to be technically really good so you can really connect with the person through the sound. It's not just some noise where you can't depict if it is a breath or some strange voice or... So I did not want for the technicality to stand in between you and the other person that makes the sound. I wanted it to come into your ear as a listener without the interference so you can really connect with these other bodies. And in what I got back from people, I can really feel their body presence. But of course, as with any audio work, it asks for a different kind of attention and perception. So you have to say yes to this particular kind of impulse that comes from the headphones. So, in order to connect to it and feel these voices, it's important that you maybe don't look around, don't eat a sandwich or think about the things you will do in the next half an hour, but that your perception is a bit more calm or slowed down.
Ira Ferris: [01:04:38] Yeah, it's about focus. Which brings me to the question about the difference between experiencing art in physical environments such as gallery space and experiencing it through your screen, through this online zoom medium. I have a background in dance and movement, and I'm very interested in the way that our bodies experience art in the spaces and how we move through the space as we experience things, and how we leave everything behind; we come to this space and are fully focused on the art that we are receiving. And I wonder if that can ever be achieved online where you are potentially distracted by making a meal or your housemates going around or phones ringing. It's something about the fact that you haven't actually left the space of your house where you do all sorts of things, to walk or drive to this special kind of space. And I'm not talking special in terms of elevating it into another value. I'm just saying that it's a different kind of space, where you are completely focused on this particular experience. So to sum that up, I'm wondering what are your thoughts about art going online? Because I think it's potentially going to happen more and more.
Petra Mrša: [01:06:19] For me, the really great, beautiful part of it is that it makes it a bit more democratic. It's much more available for a broader audience. So, in this sense, I think it is great that it's happening because these days, anyways, so many things are happening online and on the Internet and if culture and art would not be there, then we would lose the meaning and the voice in the society. So I think it's great that it's present there. I also think that for the new generations, their perception is quite divided and distracted. It's visible that they often have a problem with focus, with reading, with finishing one task until the end. So the fact that the kids these days are exposed to so many different pictures on the Internet is partly a problem, but they also learn faster. If you take this kind of visitor as your audience, then I think the art that is online, that you can come in and out of, and that offers you to be one of the parallel actions, is how they perceive the world. So then it's kind of very, let's say normal and up-to-date way of communicating and exposing content. I'm personally very romantic in this sense, because for me the best thing is to go to some special place and cut out from other things and be focused on watching some artworks or art videos, some content made on something specific. Since I was 12, I found museums and galleries as the most relaxing and safe and beautiful place where I could encounter the idea with my own head, in my own time. I have time to think about it. There are not many people around me, so I don't have to think about what other people think about it. So for me, this physicality of museums and the galleries is super important. But I can imagine that people that are raised in a different, more digital environment, don't connect with this physicality in such a way.
Ira Ferris: [01:09:23] Yeah, I love that your answer is multifaceted because it is really not black and white, or it's not like one is better than the other. We have to accept that both have their values. But a question keeps coming to my mind, thinking about these generations that have short attention span and are connected to the digital world... What about the body? What are we becoming if we feed them with the diet that they are already being fed with? Are we not only perpetuating a loss of something that may be important? And, you know, how do we then connect with nature?
Petra Mrša: [01:10:13] Yeah, this is a great question. And you know, this is also something that would be very valuable for other disciplines to consider, like educators, scientists, politicians... So, it's not just the art field that speaks about the body as a tool of perceiving the world, but we also hear that other disciplines value this emancipation of learning through your own body. So I think the art is not the only discipline that can or should speak about it. I'm happy that I am in this discipline where people are questioning things, have critical thoughts. That I meet people that are fighting for this kind of emancipation and the meaning of the body and the need for the body to explore different environments. I am happy that I know these kind of people who are empowering in me this relationship to the body. But I can imagine that there are other forces which are less on that side. And they are very powerful, so the younger generations don't have an easy way to find their connections with the body and with nature.
“I'm happy that I am in this discipline where people are questioning things, have critical thoughts; that I meet people that are fighting for the emancipation of the body and are empowering in me this relationship to the body. But I can imagine that there are other forces which are less on that side. And they are very powerful, so the younger generations don't have an easy way to find their connections with the body and with nature.”
(Image from Petra’s work ‘Imitating Marta’)
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