Diane Busuttil holds a Bachelor of Arts in Dance from The University of Western Sydney and a Masters Degree from Macquarie University. In 2000, she was awarded a DAAD scholarship to study at The International Women's University in Germany, where she remained for the next 15 years working in dance theatre and performing internationally with a diverse range of artistic groups. Diane also writes, directs and produces short films that have received critical acclaim from various International film festivals. Since returning to Australia in 2015 to care for her father with dementia, Diane initiated Creative Caring that brings dance classes within reach of all people with chronic movement restrictions, with a focus on community building for people with Dementia, Alzheimer's, Parkinson’s and Multiple Sclerosis.

Podcast with Diane was recorded on 21 January 2020, on the Gadigal land of Eora nation, traditional custodians of the land on which we live, work, and dance. We pay our respect to their elders, past present and emerging.

Podcast image is by Lena Kramaric.
Music used is by Trevor Brown.

Artemis Projects production, commissioned by Delving into Dance and Critical Path for the Interchange Festival.

Podcast with Diane Busuttil (full transcript)

Ira Ferris: What three words come to your mind when you think about dance?

Diane Busuttil: Alive. Freedom. And creativity.

Ira Ferris: What is your earliest memory with dance?

Diane Busuttil: Hm, I don't know if I have one but what came to my mind, and it's not exactly answering your question, is ... When I was a child, I didn't like to wear clothes. And still, I like to not wear clothes as often as possible. And I used to run. And sometimes they would chase me as I run naked. It's not exactly a dance, but it's a movement showing freedom so I guess even in that little image, there's a contradiction of freedom and someone, a superior, wanting to stop this action.

Ira Ferris: Is there a link between nakedness and dance?

Diane Busuttil: Well funnily, a lot of my works are naked, a lot of my films are naked. And also some of the live performances. I did this piece in Melbourne at Dance House when Esther Salomon came out to Australia from Berlin, and the work was incredible. It was embodying gender perspectives and it was completely naked. And yeah, I really loved it. I really loved the whole process.

Ira Ferris: And why do you like to approach dance in that way?

Diane Busuttil: It's not so much that I like to approach dance in that way. I think each project tells me what it requires. For instance, in the first film I ever made, at Lake George and Elizabeth Cameron Gellman's property, it just happened that way. It was a relationship with the dirt, with the earth, with the water, with the sand, with the wind. It just seemed normal to do it that way. I think it would be extremely strange to be wearing underwear or a bikini or something in telling of the story that I wanted to tell. And so that has happened a few times. With Curdles, which is a one-minute dance film that I made, I just wanted skin and the skin had to cover the whole frame. So, I guess each project just tells me what it requires. But there is also a special beauty in this approach; it speaks its own language when you don't impose fashion or practical clothing.

Ira Ferris: It makes me think of being unrestricted, and you were speaking about dance in connection to freedom, so the body being freed from the layers put on top of it seems to be a part of that. The other thing that you referred to there is wanting to be in touch and in connection with the elements such as earth, sand and water. So, you are addressing the responsiveness to the space, being aware of the space. What does concept 'spatial awareness' signify to you? How do you describe it? How do you reflect on it?

Diane Busuttil: I guess that's a very big question. If I think of space that I like to use personally, I think of the floor. I'm very connected to the floor and moving from the grounded space. If I think of space in general... Well, it influences us every day, and it's variable and it's changing all the time. If we get up and we go to the beach first thing in the morning and then we come back home and begin our day, we have a sense of expansion; we have a sense of replenishing energy from the ocean. But I think space is changing because of our use of electronic devices which enable people to be less responsible for their awareness of their kinesthetic space, which then obviously leads into the non-awareness of other people's space.

Ira Ferris: I'm asking this question because some of the things that dance has thought me is this awareness of how the space affects me and how I effect the space. And building from that, I was wanting to ask you, what mark has training in dance and being a dancer left on your life and how would your life be different if you weren't a dancer; i.e. your relationship to the environment, to other people, to yourself?

Diane Busuttil: Well, I sometimes wonder how people cope not having a relationship to their body; not being aware that they're slouching all day or aware of the little tics and habits that we all have. Are people aware of them? I wonder about this.

Ira Ferris: What does that do to us in your view? What changes when we are aware of it?

Diane Busuttil: Well, I think it creates this ease. So, anything that is left unattended will just develop and cultivate and it will still reside in your body, if you hold it. I mean, obviously, any awareness of how you're feeling and the safe expression of your feelings is going to allow for freedom and I think that movement is a big part of that process where we get to look at ourselves, check in daily. If we have a daily practice, we can check in, see how we're doing.

Ira Ferris: And then release it through the movement...

Diane Busuttil: Yeah, to acknowledge and to honor it, I guess. Yeah.

Ira Ferris: What do you make of this idea that some people have of themselves that they can't dance?

Diane Busuttil: Well, I deal with that often with the seniors I teach. So, some people, they always say to me, oh, I can't dance. And I say, oh, yes, you can. Let's try. Let's see. And then I'll say, oh, but you were dancing, you did this and that. So that is one element of my work that I really enjoy; demystifying their own beliefs. And on the flip side, I've seen people over hundred still dancing.

Ira Ferris: So where does this conception that we have of ourselves, that some of us have of ourselves, that we can't dance, come from? What happens?

Diane Busuttil: I don’t know but very likely they were told not to dance or that they couldn't dance or that dance is embarrassing. There's a lot of stories that our parents or our relatives feed us. Stories that we have to unwind through our lives. And then it's up to the individual; do you rebel against that or do you believe it?

Ira Ferris: Dance is obviously about movement. That's how most people think about it. But there is also pause and stillness in dance, as a major component of it. How do you relate to pause and stillness as a dancer?

Diane Busuttil: I love stillness. I love it. Yeah. People would maybe not think that but ... I recently did a project that involved a dynamic meditation. And there are five stages and one of them is stillness and yeah, to my surprise, there's so many places you can go to in stillness. It's a very fertile state. I think there's a richness in going inward. Not that you have to go inward if you are silent or still, but it does evoke that journey.

Ira Ferris: What happens to the movement when it comes from that space of inwardness and stillness?

Diane Busuttil: What happens to me is that I begin to investigate a state of what's inside and I begin to generate movement from that state. A state of confusion. A state of feeling alone. A state of joy. Of Anger. Who knows what could be there. And then I pay attention to that and try to be with it, just to be with it. Not determine it, not direct it. And then in movement, I would resonate from the inside and just move in the expression of whatever that state is.

Ira Ferris: That speaks to me about openness. Opening yourself to whatever comes which is also in some way connected to freedom, I feel, as you allow yourself to be and to express yourself through that which is deeply inside of you rather than what you're supposed to project, express, or give.

Diane Busuttil: Yes.

Ira Ferris: When you spoke about freedom, and it was one of the three words you mentioned earlier, how do you define freedom in relation to dance?

Diane Busuttil: Well, I think what you just said does define it because we have so many rules, whether they're conscious or subconscious. I can give you two examples just at the top of my head. For example, if I was to sit on the train with my legs wide apart, I think some people would feel uncomfortable with that, even if I'm not intentionally wanting to disturb or harm. Because most people assume it's OK for men to do that and not okay for women to do. Another example would be yawning which is definitely out of question in ballet class. You cannot yawn. I remember as a ballet student I got into so much trouble once because I yawned and the teacher took that personally and was very upset. And I said, well, it's a human bodily function; I'm not doing it as a protest against your teaching. But that also didn't go down very well. So, in my classes we do an exercise where it's okay to yawn and you make a big movement, an extension of the limbs, and I also started to integrate a little bit of sound. And I could see some people just do it and embrace it. And other people feel, should I be doing this, is it okay? So, I guess as dancers, we cross all those borders of what's acceptable and what's not. We live in the world, so we surely adapt to those ideas of physical conditioning in society, but it's nice to bring that into a class and open things up.

Ira Ferris: That question is great, and to bring it into the class: Should I be moving in a certain way?

Diane Busuttil: Mm hmm.

Ira Ferris: What are some of the moments in your life when you experience yourself being still?

Diane Busuttil: Hopefully, when I go to bed. [laughs] I love that. I love to go inside and be still. And then I'm also very conscious of when it's difficult for some reason. For example, if I have pain or can't stop thinking. And then I'm moving. And also ... I like to meditate on the train. Not always, but it's a time when I think I can just be still and focus on my breathing.

Ira Ferris: Akram Khan, a UK dancer and choreographer, said that the only time he is still is when he dances.

Diane Busuttil: Yeah, that's not my relationship to dance at the moment. I'm not training as a dancer every day anymore. So, the vessel of my body is having different experiences. And, yeah. I don't know. That's interesting. I mean, I think if you're listening to something that's motivating you from the inside, even a thought is an action, I guess. So, it would be beautiful to feel that you are an empty vessel full of stillness, whilst moving.

Ira Ferris: That's a beautiful expression, empty vessel. Makes me think of another question I wanted to ask you, and it's in relation to being a trained and, in some way therefore, conditioned dancer as any trained dancer is. We are conditioned movers. And then breaking through that and becoming improvisational dancer, intuiting dancer, freestyle dancer. What is that thing that enables you to let go, to stop analyzing, to really be in the moment and let the movement take over so you don't even exist anymore, in a way? It's just pure movement, if that is how you would describe that experience.

Diane Busuttil: Well, the thing is that I've always rebelled. Not against technique, but I rarely use technique. I mean, of course I use technique because it's embodied, as you said, it's embodied in our bodies. But I think the key is to be able to elevate yourself above the technique and make it creative. For example, I think classical ballet is one of the hardest techniques to be creative with because it's such a strong discipline. To use that same discipline and at the same time express freedom, I think is quite powerful. So, I think I've always used imagination. I've always been leaning towards the creative side of how I can use what I learned to tell a story or to have a relationship with somebody else or be in a group. So, I've never really felt bound to any technique. Quite the opposite, I quite like the discipline of it. I'm not exactly doing it right now, but I really have enjoyed that aspect, the discipline.

Ira Ferris: So, on one hand, you were rebelling the technique and discipline, but you also miss it. Is that what you're expressing?

Diane Busuttil: No, I think in terms of freedom and creativity, the technique was always the bouncing platform from which the creativity came. I always thought that I could mix things up and turn it into something ... I mean, I never really worried if it was right or wrong. Maybe that's the answer, that I can just try something without caring if it's right or wrong.

Ira Ferris: Is that how you approach life in general?

Diane Busuttil: No. [laughs]

Ira Ferris: That's interesting. So, dance then provides that space where you can?

Diane Busuttil: Well creatively sure, if you're going into the studio and your tools are movement. Or if you want to make sound with your body, you have so many options. If you want to be still...  I think with creativity, I go in without the idea of a limitation, without the idea of judgment, this idea of right and wrong. But yes, I would say I'm different in life where I do think about things beforehand, and at the same time, everything teaches me. You know, you do something wrong, you try and cook something and it doesn't work and you learn for the next time. So, I think life teaches us what we need to know if we're open enough to being responsive.

Ira Ferris: You made a sound of making the sound with your body. Have you experienced dancing in silence?

Diane Busuttil: Yes, but I'd say there's always an internal rhythm. I'm quite rhythmical. Actually, I always hear rhythms that I can just interpret through the body, so I guess that nobody else hears them but I'm not sure if it's really silent.

Ira Ferris: You did a residency with Legs on the Wall where you explored the internal states of noise and texture of internal architecture. And there you were inspired by Osho meditation techniques. Was that an exploration of silence in some way, or opposite of silence?

Diane Busuttil: Well, that was working with internal states. So, I used the meditation; I used that technique because I find it a good way to get connected to what's inside. I don't think I quite managed to do that in a week. However, at the same time, I did cultivate, not a story but maybe some words that would eventually create a garden of narrative, or non-narrative. Yeah, I like working with internal states, and I think getting to a point of silence for me usually means doing the opposite first. So, you get out all the chatter; get out all the rubbish; empty everything out until you're that empty vessel. And then you just listen to what's going on in there, to what resides inside. And I'm sure other artists do that with, you know, painting or sound. But for me, it's movement where I can show the form of what's happening in my internal space.

Ira Ferris: Is silence then similar to stillness?

Diane Busuttil: No, not for me.

Ira Ferris: What is the difference?

Diane Busuttil: Well, I can be still, but as I said, maybe there's an internal dialogue or maybe there's an internal rhythm. So, I would say it's not complete silence. And even if there is complete silence, maybe there's white noise, maybe there's distant noise. I think maybe only the monks are practicing a combination of silence and stillness. I don't know.

Ira Ferris: There is also this thought that I came across recently, but I'm sure it's been around in many different ways, that there is something political about dance.

Diane Busuttil: Sure. I'm not sure if dance can be removed from the space in which it exists; to be non-political. I think most dance does definitely reference a culture or a time or a climate of some description. And if you look back in history, movements, in all different art forms, are affected and in a direct relationship to the politics and the society. Butoh, for example. And tap dance was also very political in its beginnings.

Ira Ferris: Then there is also politics, I guess, in removing those barriers we spoke about. Finding freedom. Finding your way through.

Diane Busuttil: Well, I guess it's up to the creators. How near or far they want to remain from political commentary. And sometimes it comes by accident.

Ira Ferris: Imagine the world where everyone would dance. There would be no person who would think that they can't dance. And maybe the days would begin with a dance, just like we brush our teeth and wash our faces and have a shower. What would that world look like?

Diane Busuttil: Well, I've always wanted that we can dance down the street because I often feel like doing it. And I'm aware that I might get arrested or somebody might think I'm on drugs. You know, it would be considered as outside of those unspoken laws of society if I was to dance down the street. So, I would love that. I would love that anybody who feels like waking up and dancing can. Why not?

Ira Ferris: What would be our relationship to the Earth, Mother Earth, if we've done that and if we started doing something like that now?

Diane Busuttil: A lot of cultures already have that relationship. Dancing through a rite of passage and community dances that mark different moments such as weddings, anniversaries, circumcision, christenings. Yeah, that's the world I would like to be in. I've always felt a little bit ripped off that I'm a Westerner. I've always wished that I was actually more connected to an indigenous culture where that was a part of life's phases. And yeah, I think a lot of cultures are obviously still doing that and have a beautiful relationship to the earth and cultivate spaces that are sacred; where they have burning ceremonies and this is their sacred dance area. Yeah, I think we would respect the earth a bit more, hopefully, if we were to celebrate through dance more often, more freely, without being arrested.

Follow Diane’s practice:

Website: dianebusuttil.com