Originally from London, Amiee’s love of dance started at the age of two. Growing up she attended classes with some of the country’s leading teachers. After graduating from the prestigious Laine Theatre Arts in Epsom, Amiee somehow fell into a job in the fashion industry where she worked with the likes of Chanel, Fendi and Moschino. A sudden move down-under, she found Barre Body where she now runs pilates/yoga/ballet-bar classes, giving up her career in fashion to focus on her love of movement. A mother of two, Amiee is also passionate in teaching dance to children and is teaching kid’s ballet classes at Miss Tara Studios.

Podcast with Amie was recorded on 10 January 2020, on the Gadigal land of Eora nation, traditional custodians of the land on which we live, work, and dance. We pay our respect to their elders, past present and emerging.

Podcast image is by Lena Kramaric.
Music used is by Trevor Brown.

Artemis Projects production, commissioned by Delving into Dance and Critical Path for the Interchange Festival.

Podcast with Amiee Hershan (full transcript)

Ira Ferris: What three words come to your mind when you think about dance?

Amiee Hershan: Movement. Joy. Freedom.

Ira Ferris: What is your earliest memory of dance?

Amiee Hershan: My mom putting on Gustav Holst's 'The Planets' on a little brown Fisher-Price tape recorder that we all had in the 80s, and I used to just make up dances for myself, just on my own. And I also used to dance to Torvill and Dean who were ice skaters, their soundtrack for one of their ice skate shows.

Ira Ferris: How old were you?

Amiee Hershan: I must have been three or four. That's what my first memory is, just dancing. I went to dance classes from when I was two, but I used to just have music on by myself and just be dancing around my lounge.

Ira Ferris: And you also trained in dance? You said that you went to the classes?

Amiee Hershan: Yes, I started when I was two and I went through local dance school and then I went on to a professional dance college. And then I sort of stepped back and now I've stepped back into it again.

Ira Ferris: And what style of dance did you start with?

Amiee Hershan: Classical and then contemporary. We were made to do things like hip hop, but I just don't fit in with that. I feel really uncomfortable.

Ira Ferris: And now? The classes that you do now?

Amiee Hershan: Still classical ballet and contemporary.

Ira Ferris: And where do you go to?

Amiee Hershan: I go to Sydney Dance School but sometimes I can find that a little intimidating. I'm just about to start teaching at a dance school, actually. Teaching kids how to dance. So, I'll probably do more classes there.

Ira Ferris: And you have two kids of your own?

Amiee Hershan: I sure do.

Ira Ferris: And do they dance?

Amiee Hershan: Yes. They're always dancing. The little one who's two is just loving it. That's why the words came into my head like that. Joy, that it brings her. She closes her eyes and she moves her arms and her head. It's just so lovely. She loves dancing.

Ira Ferris: Does she dance when there's music on or have you found her dancing in other situations?

Amiee Hershan: She dances down the aisles of Coles. She'll dance everywhere. Doesn't have to be music. She likes music, but it doesn't have to be music. She will just be moving and dancing and kicking and just moving... It's just lovely, the way she closes her eyes and the face she makes; it's just really calming, she's happy.

Ira Ferris: What are some other situations in your life that you find yourself dancing in, when it's outside of the class?

Amiee Hershan: Always at home, always music on. But I also find myself thinking about steps or movements just walking down the street, choreographing things in my head or thinking this would be a really amazing thing to move to or this would be great to do with my class. So, yeah, I could pretty much dance anywhere. It's freedom. I was dancing on the beach and there was sunset and it was just me and Jimi and we were dancing together.

Ira Ferris: And Jimi is your daughter?

Amiee Hershan: Jimi is my daughter, yes.

Ira Ferris: Talking about children dancing as a natural thing, something that is very instinctual to our bodies; what happens when we grow up? Why do some of us stop dancing?

Amiee Hershan: We get inhibited. I can see it from my two-year-old who's free, to my six-year-old where your peers start making comments and you lose your freedom, you feel watched and judged or that people will laugh at you. My six-year-old, he loves dancing and he does dance at home but, you know, if he's out with his mates, it's gonna be the floss or the dub or ... It's got to be something else or they'll have a laugh about it. So yeah you lose that freedom and you start building that concern: are they watching me and are they judging me?

Ira Ferris: How do you as a mother deal with that? What do you say to him to help him deal with this fear?

Amiee Hershan: I just say don't worry about what people say. I always say to him: Do you like it? And he's like: Yes. And then I'm like: Well you do it then, don't worry about what other people think. Like, he had a haircut and he loved it, and he was so proud of it. And then someone said: Oh, I'm not sure I like it. And he stopped wearing it. I was like: If you like it, do it. Don't worry about what other people say. They will laugh, but don't worry about it, because it's not really them laughing at you. They laugh because they might not have the confidence to do it themselves. To be able to move how you do.

Ira Ferris: So, it's about envy?

Amiee Hershan: Yes, I think so. Yeah. Nervousness. And just lacking confidence. Because, you know, my kids come from very creative background. Me, my brother and my sister in law are all movers. And my niece as well. But then you get to school. Some kids haven't had that around them.

Ira Ferris: What would you say are some of the key lessons that training in dance has taught you?

Amiee Hershan: One of the big things I've taken away from dance, especially the school I went to, which was very strict, is manners. You have to listen. If you watch a dance class, a teacher will give a correction and you can see them nodding and doing it. So, the ability to take instructions. And you're always engaged to your teacher. And I also find that going out, even if I'm really nervous or tired or upset, I can go and speak to a room of people and be okay with it. I find it comes naturally, even though what I'm feeling with inside doesn't always match. But manners. I can look people in the eye and say hello. I can talk to an older generation or people who are not in my peer group and connect with them. And yeah, manners like 'hello', 'thank you'. That's the thing that I always think: 'Wow, I did take something out of college'. I've learnt to be able to present myself, I guess.

Ira Ferris: And I think you've addressed there that maybe internally you're noticing certain anxiety around it, but you have the body awareness to monitor that and express yourself externally in a different way.

Amiee Hershan: Yeah. And I said it to my ballet class. I did a six-week ballet course and I said to them, you know, use it as your therapy. Like I was really badly bullied at secondary school, and that's when you're just about to go to a dance college. And that's when I made that real leap, because it was my therapy. I went and I just practiced and practiced. And it didn't matter what people were saying to me because I had another focus in life. Moving my body, no matter how anxious or nervous or upset I am will help. It will calm me down. The breath and movement, the music, the steps, the routine I guess that's in there as well, grounds me and I always come out feeling really good.

Ira Ferris: Dancer and choreographer Akram Khan says that the only time he is still is when he dances.

Amiee Hershan: Yeah, I understand that.

Ira Ferris: In what way does that manifest for you?

Amiee Hershan: It's the calmness. You can't concentrate if your mind is on the other side of the door. You can't bring yourself into your body. You can't hold your body, even before you move, without that mind-body connection. So, you're not thinking about Instagram or whatever's going on. You have to be within yourself, you have to be in the moment, you have to be in your breath, you have to be in your little finger and your eyebrow and thinking where they all connect. And I guess that's where the stillness is; leaving life outside and just being with yourself. That creates serenity.

Ira Ferris: What does concept 'spatial awareness' signify to you?

Amiee Hershan: Like if you're in a studio or there are other people around you or?

Ira Ferris: Generally in life.

Amiee Hershan: Spatial awareness to me means… you are not too close to someone. You are not breathing down someone's neck. You've got your own space and that's yours and yeah people come into it and go from it but you're still learning the boundary of who you are, where your body sits in space and how to invite people into it, and ask them to move away if they are too close.

Ira Ferris: Do you think that that awareness of other bodies and how your body occupies the space is something that dance has thought you?

Amiee Hershan: A 100 percent. Again, it comes down to mind-body awareness. You are aware of where your body sits in the space or how it's moving in the space. So, when someone else is in that space, you're aware of it because you've created your own little atmosphere, your own little ozone layer. And then when someone comes and intrudes on that, you're fully aware of it. So yeah, moving and movement and that mind-body-soul awareness creates awareness of what else can be around you as well.

Ira Ferris: Is environmental awareness connected to that?

Amiee Hershan: A 100 percent. You always think of the way nature moves. I always say when I teach, move your spine like a piece of seaweed and you think of the seaweed moving in the sea and you connect to the environment. I was listening to something by Bob Brown and he said, when we want to feel better or say I'm sorry or something else to each other, we give each other flowers. We've got pictures of a woodland on our wall. We are, whether we know it or not, connected to nature. We don't have pictures of bulldozers or chain saws on our walls. We don't give a chainsaw to someone who's just broken their leg. We give flowers, we give nature. So, we are all, whether we're aware of it or not, connected to environment. And when you dance, you can look at the way animals move and try and incorporate that into a piece of movement or dance. We all know what it looks like, so we all have that subconsciousness to connect with environment.

Ira Ferris: So, what is the thing that estranged us from nature?

Amiee Hershan: In a way we have. We always have our heads in our phones. We're always looking down. I remember someone saying to me, when I was upset one day, look up, look at the sky around you, look at the trees around you. Breathe it in. Don't look down at the pavement and the greyness. Look up, be aware. We're in technology, we're in a bank machine, we are in a world where we are very tunnel-visioned rather than looking up and out and noticing that tiny bird on the tree. Again, it goes back to kids. If you look at kids, they see the tiny spider, they notice a minuscule ant and they get down to look at it. Whether as adults we've lost that, and we walk over it. So, what brings us away from nature, is us. We've done it to ourselves.

Ira Ferris: Pina Bausch says: 'Dance. Dance. Otherwise, we are lost.'

Amiee Hershan: Dance. Otherwise, we are lost… It's freedom. It's the freedom that moving gives you. That freedom that we all need to get. Rather than being so concerned about what everyone else thinks of us, what we look like. Otherwise we become lost in life. Concerned with how others think we should be. Makes me think of those things that people sit in, in offices, those cubicles. We become that and we are lost. Because we don't have any freedom to not care what anyone else thinks of us.

Ira Ferris: Imagine the world where everyone would dance and there would be no person who would think that they can't dance. Days would begin with a dance just like they do with brushing our teeth, washing our face, having a shower. What would that world look like?

Amiee Hershan: We would smile a lot more. We'd have more enjoyment. We'd be a lot less inhibited. We'd have joy in us, cause for me dancing is a joyful thing. We'd be able to enjoy things as well. The cubicle-life would fall away.

Ira Ferris: As a trained dancer, what is your experience and relationship to improvised dancing?

Amiee Hershan: It's really good. It's good for your soul just to turn on a piece of music. We used to do improvise dance in competitions and I used to be really good at it and just be able to put on music and see what comes out. Maybe that's when the best ideas come out and you're like: Oh, I've never tried that. But you stop thinking and you do what your body wants you to do. It's almost like your body is taking over rather than you saying: I need to do this or that.

Ira Ferris: When I think of improvisation, I think of uncertainty. And in a good way. Letting go of that need to know and control. And you're discovering things that you would otherwise not allow yourself to discover?

Amiee Hershan: Yeah, I think so. And also, your body can go to the limits and to the places that it's definitely not gone before. Even by accident. You fall over and you land like this and actually, that's pretty cool, and now you’re going to do something else to get yourself out of it and you didn't think you can do that but actually, you are.

Ira Ferris: So, it surprises you, shows you things that you wouldn't even imagine if you were always in your head and if you didn't let your body and your feelings to take over?

Amiee Hershan: Yeah. It's like when people say, I can't dance. Everyone can dance. Everyone can sway to music and close their eyes. That's dancing. Doesn't have to be Gene Kelly. Dancing is moving in a way that comes from in your soul rather than in your head.  I was at a concert and I was thinking, everyone could dance, even the people that think they are bad dancers. Even if you are doing the cheesiest move, you are dancing. You are doing it. If you are moving and you are finding something, that's dancing.

Ira Ferris: Yeah, and I experienced that sometimes people who are not trained in dance and who think of themselves that they can't dance, that they are the best on the dance floor. I love watching them. The things that they come up with; I've never seen the trained dancer do that.

Amiee Hershan: No, because they're almost too controlled. Again, it comes down to kids. Watch them on the dance floor. They are nuts. But they're amazing. And they are not afraid to knee-slide into a body-roll and stand up and then they've done the splits and then they're doing something else. They're not afraid of that. It's just fun to them. They're laughing. Their faces are smiling. And people on the dance floor, they're not dancing with sour-face and they are not upset and depressed. There's lightness, they're laughing at themselves. And it's maybe the ability to get into that that would help people know that, yeah, you can dance. It doesn't matter how.

Ira Ferris: So why does dance matter now?

Amiee Hershan: Because, I think our souls need it. Again, moving is joy. But also, it brings you out of what's going on. And there's a lot going on at the moment. Australia is burning. America is trying to start the third world war. It's crazy out there. Letting go of that, leaving that on the other side of the windows and bringing yourself into your body that is so important. To take a step out every now and again and bring ourselves into our bodies and connect with just who we are. And also learn how to experience the joy without the TV or without other things. You can do things with just your body, with yourselves, with no music, with the sound of the waves. You can find joy in that.

Ira Ferris: In writing this article, I was reflecting a lot on it being a strange time to think about dance and praise dance. There is, it seems to me, a bit of guilt at the moment associated with having fun while the world is burning and the wars are starting and people are suffering. And I over a few days around New Year's eve went to a music festival where we danced a lot. And stepping out of the constant barrage of news and depression, anxiety, felt really important as a way to strengthen. So, I can come back and focus on positive things that I am trying to do. It also reminded me of good things about humanity. And then I came to your class and you were talking about encouraging us to feel okay with taking time away as a way to reset so we can actually go out and do good things. But we need that moment of resetting.

Amiee Hershan: Absolutely. I'm watching people on social media spiral downwards. And we can't pour from an empty cup. We know it's going on but also, we've got to create a little magic in our lives. And we're not turning our heads. We're not turning our backs. We are just taking a deep breath. We can make it happen, but we can't make it happen if we're overwhelmed and we're struggling and we're anxious. We have to be strong to fight. We have to be energized. I said in that Saturday class, and it was the Saturday when it was just awful, there were million fires and it was 40 degrees and windy and it was just the worst day. And I ended the class with Martin Luther King quote: 'Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that.' We can't drive this out, we can't change anything from a place of misery. We have to have fun. And that light and that joy can overcome what's going on. We can change it, but we have to be energized and we have to have joy, spark joy, have fun, enjoy ourselves. It's not selfish. We're not ignoring it. We're not doing anything. We're doing everything we can. But we also have to take care of ourselves and each other. It's really important to be kind and make someone else smile. Check in with you, mate. Or someone that you don't know. And we can go and work together for the greater good.